it's clearly japan as well. so what happens in 2013 with gold? >> well, interestingly enough, we think that this actually could be gold's first down year since 2000 when it posted a negative gain. it seems to us that gold should actually be much higher, if in fact all the global debasing was going to push it in any sort of fundamental way. not even through 1700 and 1800, but well through 2000. so the bid has faded. i think there's kind of a cyclical exhaustion that has infected the investment community with gold as well. >> i want to also talk about copper. we did get china pmis out this morning, the highest reading since may of 2011. you're still skeptical of the copper trade. why is that? >> think about it, melissa, it's been trading between $3 and $4 a pound here for the post sort of crash time period. and that's really been the point in time where china has been very aggressive in terms of its capital expenditures. the rest of the world has been also quite innovative in terms of trying to stoke demand in its global housing markets. those thin